I have recently run across statements similar to the title of this blog where it was implied that people that don’t receive *messages* from the Gods, or are skeptical of other people’s gnosis are somehow not spiritual enough, not pious enough to have intense relationships with the them. There is a judgement that somehow these people must not be practicing correctly, because if you’re doing it right, you should be receiving ecstasy, messages, and personal gnosis out the wazoo.
My response? Bull pucky.
Now…what really is personal gnosis? Some people believe that the gods are everywhere..that all we have to do is look at nature, feel the breeze on our cheek, to develop an understanding, a deeper relationship with the Divine. Others believe that personal gnosis means a personal message to you from the Gods…that they have bestowed upon you a certain understanding of them that others may not receive.
I believe it is both, and one is not better than the other.
The idea that one is somehow not spiritual because they aren’t receiving these *intense* or *passionate* messages is somehow inferior or not actually practicing is suspect. Those that push their gnosis for public consumption need to be heavily scrutinized. We should not imply that anyone doesn’t actually have a relationship with the gods; however tempting it may be. We should not assume that someone isn’t receiving these kinds of messages just because they are not jumping up and down yelling, “Look at me!”
Personal gnosis is just that, personal. And each piece of information we receive, in whatever way we receive it, is valid to the individual. A person who contemplates a leaf falling from a tree can receive just as much understanding of the Divine as someone who falls to the floor in ecstasy.
Return to the One: Plotinus’s Guide to God-Realization
by Brian Hines
“But if the One and spirit are immanent in the creation, then the study of nature becomes, in a certain sense, the study of God, And since Plotinus and other Neoplatonists held that creation is taking place continuously in the present moment… then coming to understand how the laws of nature function is tantamount to gaining vision, however veiled, of spirit’s transcendent creative intelligence.” (page 326)
We are Hellenes. Our religion is intertwined with our lives. That means that even the most mundane things can give us a deeper relationship, a deeper understanding of the Gods and how they interact with us in our daily routines.
If you are not receiving intense gnosis, I want to assure you that you’re not *doing it wrong*. If you are practicing, and have an understanding of Hellenic ethics, piety and reasoning….you are doing what you need to do.
Intense gnosis is a bonus, but it’s not something that makes or breaks *anyone* from being a Hellene.
Jessi
on Apr 4th, 2008
@ 7:10 pm:
I agree wholeheartedly! But to be honest, I’ve never seen ONE person on all the lists or all the blogs that ever said this…
mauvedragon
on Apr 4th, 2008
@ 7:21 pm:
Most of the UPG that is discussed within the Kemetic temple I belong to is offering preferences of different gods. Most other UPG is not discussed and ecstatic experiences are largely irrelevant.
Timothy Alexander
on Apr 5th, 2008
@ 1:20 pm:
I wish I could say I have not seen it. On one hand, virtually everyone will say “personal gnosis” or mystical experience is not necessary, but then of those there is a group who use it as a debate tactic when their “divine wisdom” is challenged. You do hear statements (from time to time) similar to, “If you practiced correctly, and was filled with the ecstasy of the Gods, then you would understand this ‘divine wisdom’ to be true.”
What it comes down to is this weird trend of public witnessing that seems to be growing as more “Neopagans” insist on identifying as Hellenic. It is all a bunch of “Look at me. Look at me. The Gods talk to me everyday. I’m so special.” It is all rather distasteful, obnoxious, and ultimately offensive. The Gods talk to us all every day, but if someone is hearing voices in their head, they should probably seek out a mental health professional.
Scampian
on Apr 5th, 2008
@ 3:56 pm:
See i dont believe that the gods would give us “intense” gnosis, sure I have seen the gods, I have talked to them, but these are merely my dreams nothing more, its my brain calculating my beliefs and placing them in image and thought form. Real gnosis, the real voice of the gods, the gods, are in the wind, in the streams, in the forests, in nature, I have stated this before and will always uphold this belief.
The idea of seeing the gods as a seperate manifested form, or hearing their voices in a seperate manifested form is purely abrahamic and neo-pagan.
The gods are nature and thus they are not seperate from it, these “intense” gnosis are not as strong as real gnosis, they limit the gods into archetypes and thus limit our understanding. The gods are unlimited, everchanging yet neverchanging, never created and never destroyed, good. Look into nature and you will see that nature truly is the gods.
@Jessi
I have addressed this matter before, not quite in the same way, yet I still have addressed it.
Scampian
on Apr 5th, 2008
@ 3:57 pm:
Oh btw Twinkle, great blog =D
Snakesandsuns
on Apr 11th, 2008
@ 1:56 am:
“The idea of seeing the gods as a separate manifested form, or hearing their voices in a separate manifested form is purely abrahamic and neo-pagan.”
Actually in kemeticism there is a very rich tradition of the gods coming in dreams or giving order as a manifest voice. An example is sphinx’s tablet, that tells the story of how a form of Re came to him in a vision telling him to restore that statue.
Timothy Alexander
on Apr 11th, 2008
@ 10:42 am:
I think there are a few things to note. Dreams and visions are not a separate manifested form, and this article is in regards to Hellenismos.
Scampian
on Apr 13th, 2008
@ 4:59 am:
”Dreams and visions are not a separate manifested form, and this article is in regards to Hellenismos.”
Also do not forget that the abrahamic faiths are based on Kemeticism…